COMMENTS
Great post! I think this is one of your best in a while. Moneyball is a great movie and i think you have picked out some great lines from it.
My two favorites were 6 and 17. 6 because my genitals hurt from straddling the fence. I am bootstrapping my start-up while trying to keep my day job to put food on the table. We hope to be able to go full time very soon.
17 because we feel like we have a product that will change the game of raising capital. And changing the way games are played is exciting!
I don't find it terribly useful to be given concepts without examples. In your point #5 you paraphrasing with a quick conversation - now that I got.
You want to write a great book...write one called 'talking business' and stuff it with dialog that demonstrate the concepts through dialog. Then you can turn that into a Broadway play and send me some tickets as thanks.
Having legally advised thousands of entrepreneurs, I appreciate your article. I watched Moneyball on my flight to LA and then again on my way back to NY. Now I'm going to watch it again after having read your article. Thx.
Randy: Thanks for the tip. You're right about needing more examples. Will try to make the writing more conversational in the future.
I loved the movie too. One thought on Point 1, often people who look the part are wrong for your (or any) startup. I went through this recently for my own statup. I was hiring a guy who had experience in the specific market I'm going after, he had a great track record, had done the same job at successful companies, everything looked perfect. Then we started talking about the day to day specifics of what he'd be doing. At a startup you do do whatever needs doing. His attitude was I do task A and only task A. Tasks B,C, and D are handled by other people. That's how business works. Looked like a great guy, but not right for a startup.
Thanks Dharmesh. There are
so many inspirational quotes in here. My favs:
"You can't maintain two feet firmly planted on the ground and take the leap of faith."
"If you sit on the fence too long, your genitals are going to hurt."
"Figure out what success looks like for a given role, and ignore the irrelevant details."
"The important thing is to be right -- and then make the change happen. The best way to convince people that your theory was right is to be right and show them (not tell them) you're right. Most people will never be convinced otherwise."
" It's about seeing something that's not quite right in the world, and deciding you want to fix it." At Agility, we feel that digital publishing is broken. There are so many tools and so many options, publishers are getting hosed and all their amazing content is not reaching their audience.
PS - Signed up for HubSpot in December and we're loving it!
Phenomenal article. Thanks so much for writing this.
I love "I'm not paying you for the player you used to be, I'm paying you for the player you are right now." So easy to rest on our laurels, to value someone for "potential" and not have a conversation when results are not up to "potential".
Dharmesh,
Great post. But I 100% disagree with your comment that the HubSpot team didn't look great on paper. VCs were falling all over each other to work with your team because you guys were (and still) are awesome.
Loved the article. Looking forward to watching the movie soon.
"The first one through the wall always gets bloody."
Thanks for this article Dharmesh - Welcome to the Moneyball fan club! It's been my favorite recruiting book since it was first written, as it inspires (and proves the concept of) hiring for future wins vs. buying past wins. It's also a great reminder about the power of synergy and diversity -- that hiring everyone in your own image, or based on a generic template, doesn't help you win. Brilliance comes in unique packages, and sometimes you have to invest in bringing that brilliance out of your new hires.
Loved the post. I ended up watching this movie 1 1/2 times. (I needed to go back and watch a few scenes a second time but I fast forwarded to the ones I wanted to re watch) This movie had so similarities to a startup.
-Trying an idea that disruptive to traditional way of thinking.
-Needing to sick to your idea even with mounting pressure from all around
-Self doubt on if what your doing will work
-Getting everyone on board with this disruptive idea even if they resist it kicking and screaming.
-Not selling out (explain this below)
The most exciting part or the one that gave me the most "what if... thoughts" and kept me thinking long after the movie ended had to be when he was offered huge money to come work for the Red Sox. When he said no I absolutely loved it. (even though I'm huge Red Sox fan) All I could think of is how many startup entrepreneurs give up huge money to keep trucking along because they believe in a bigger version of there concept. I think it would be pretty hard to say no to a huge pay out. (Personally speaking being a starving startup)
But this brings up a great question:
When you take the cash and run and when do you say thanks for the millions and millions you just offered but I'm all set? Hmmm...
Awesome post Dharmesh! Great application of the issues to start-ups. They are all spot on.
Loved point 4 (Experience). Given the opportunity, it's wonderful to see people respond and rise to the occasion to do things "they weren't suppose to be able to do." More often than not, this is how true innovation occurs - it's the people who don't know any better saying "Why don't we do it this way?" It's why companies hire new college grads - you need new blood and perspective all the time to make great progress.
Keep up the great posts.
Great Read... I'm actually a Six Sigma Black Belt for a large company and this book and movie have helped me to explain my roles (On the few occasions that I feel inclined to do so). Soooo... What happened to points 8 and 9?
Great post, Dharmesh. Reading Moneyball right now, so this is timely.
I really appreciate idea of getting past eye candy. There's a lot of depth to it.
I think this is also critical for people looking to JOIN startups, not just entrepreneurs looking to hire. And not just that people joining startups need to look past startups that are overhyped and think about the real prospect the startup has as a sustainable business. But I also think people need to get past their own eye candy (i.e. who they THINK they are.) When I was an undergrad I relied on the Harvard brand name and some vanity stats about myself (in other words, a sense of entitlement), but recently I have started to think more and more about communicating the real, tangible value I can deliver to the people with whom I work - more customers, product design help that boosts user engagement, etc. Really valuable stuff - not just a degree or past titles.
Again - enjoyed the post. Thanks for sharing.
Great highlight of both the faults and new paradigms. Your excellent points brought more thoughts to mind:
#1 - Things are rarely as they appear.
#2 - The greater the idea, the more resistance it will receive.
#3 - Use the brain that God gave you.
#4 - What is the core talent and core value? Put aces in their places.
#5 - Begin with the end in mind.
#6 - Having more than one girl friend will soon leave you with none.
#7 - Hire people based on what they can do not based on the size of their feet.
#10 - Knowledge empowers so learn and teach.™ (Google it) :)
#12 - A great slice of pie is a good indication that the rest of the pie is great as well.
#14 - Invest in tools and training to ensure success. Be a part of the solution.
#15 - You must be the change you wish to see in the world. Mohandas Gandhi
#16 - Stupid is as stupid does - Forrest Gump Pay attention to the reality of results. Smart is as smart does. :)
#17 - "That is how we have always done it" rarely moves a business forward.
What is the fix? Everyone has a talent. Identify the talent, shine the light, give support ant tools and provide path where they can be more hopeful. Then ACTION will be the word of the day instead of fear and hesitation. Hubspot provides one of those tools. It is a tool for ACTION.
Thank you for your confession :)
and for a movie review.
"If you sit on the fence too long, your genitals are going to hurt." and if your genitals are hurting, contact me cause I sell "genital guards" that will let you sit on the fence for as long as you want :)
Exactly!!! I'm in the team building stage crucial for traction and next stage funding. Anyone who wants to change the future get in touch :)
Great post - and very timely as I just got around to seeing the movie last weekend.
Another takeaway from the film was Billy Beane's motivation. He walked away from a huge offer from the Red Sox at the end because his main driver was not the money. While the possibility of a big payoff is often a reason people join startups, it should not be the main reason. Pursue your passion with a strong team and enjoy the ride.
Thanks for a great article. I find myself straddling the fence way too often between launching a business and working full time.
I often find myself losing sight of the trees for forest and this article certainly helps gain perspective.
I'm off to go watch this movie in my next 2 hour downtime (so...late March...) :-)
Great post, Dharmesh.
Reminds me of your fellow Bostonian, the great Harvard marketing professor Theodore Levitt used to tell his students, “People don’t want to buy a quarter-inch drill. They want a quarter-inch hole!”
A good friend is the head of scouting for a major league baseball team, so I've always been fascinated with his ability to analyze players i.e. the way a pitcher releases the ball and how that indicates their propensity for longevity or for injury (therefore a riskier hire). My friend also got me into "Moneyball" and statistically-driven performance metrics.
In this current age of knowledge workers, we need to measure not the physical attributes, but a worker's inherent behavioral attributes. This is where we've found psychometrics (statistics) to be incredibly useful and accurate at helping to predict future job performance. Through analyzing the behavioral attributes of top performers in a particular job, one is then able to seek those attributes in future hires.
Great read. Especially on point 4 - You dont really need experience, but you do need the right attitude,creativity and fearlessness.
This is an excellent post and I rarely say that. The quotes are fun and not a bad way to convey the messages. For me, though, the direct relevance is that Moneyball is about RECRUITING - which is much more key to start-ups than seems to be recognized. The lessons are evident in the movie and in the book. The hardest lesson, though, you didn't cite explicitly, which is: this doesn't work unless you also STOP what you are doing now. That's always the hardest, and the most determinant of success or failure. I deal with all of these in a webinar on the Moneyball of recruiting - see it on our site matchpointcareers dot com.
Great post! ... but where are numbers: 8, 9, 11, and 13?
Is it just me or were there only 13 items? You skipped several number.
Excellent and insightful posting!
Some "numbers" are still missing..., but the main points come clear.
I've seen so many companies, mainly startups, going out hiring the first major salesperson and going for a VP of Sales (with the whole package included), because they think that's the way to attract the Star Quality people they need. Unfortunately it's gone south a lot of times, because these "stars" are not capable of doing the groundwork themselves or being true teamplayers.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
The film is great, as much for how Pitt played the Bean character described in the book as for the entertainment itself.
The book is much, much better. For me the biggest lesson was this - hire for the aggregate, not the individual. Bean traded great players in order to rely on the statistical wisdom that lesser knowns would complement the rest of the team better. I'd rather have a team that delivered than half a dozen geniuses who didn't.
Cool post! I love the spirit of challenging the status quo. I have some quotes that I liked, too:
- “You guys are talking the same non-sense. We’ve got to think differently.”
-“Your goal shouldn’t be to buy players; your goal should be to buy wins.”
We're linking these to user analytics, and how data scientists are constantly looking at data in new ways in order to glean new insights.
You can read more here: http://ktgt.co/zxS2i2
Cool post! I love the spirit of challenging the status quo. I have some quotes that I liked, too:
- “You guys are talking the same non-sense. We’ve got to think differently.”
-“Your goal shouldn’t be to buy players; your goal should be to buy wins.”
We're linking these to user analytics, and how data scientists are constantly looking at data in new ways in order to glean new insights.
You can read more here: <a href="http://ktgt.co/zxS2i2>User Analytics: A Few Lessons from Moneyball
It was a good movie but it's a great book. Instead of watching the movie twice I would read the book first so that you have a richer context when you do watch the movie.
I was quite taken by the comment about watching the same movie two days in a row. I ACTUALLY did that this week. We got Moneyball on demand Monday night and watched it. Then I watched it again the next day. I never do that.
"My Bar Is Up Here" was a defining moment. We follow the same processes over and over and over again albeit with small tweaks here and there. It works and that's why we use it. -- It works to the extent of our "bar" five years ago and actually better.
What's the new startup aiming for? The current effort buys us two ballpark hotdogs (as our metaphor). We dance around ideas worthy of another half hotdog up to the two hotdogs we're really proud of now - but took us years to develop. What about the 30-hotdog idea? Where's the bar?
Quit thinking of and comparing ideas against what you already accomplished. Think of a whole new ballpark. If you have the idea - all you have to do is keep asking the question "How can we create this (desired)outcome?" It's not about how you step up to the outcome perfectly, it's how you make it happen the dumb, drawn out, manual way - and then improve the process to make it happen in terms of the available technology and great people available once you can show the plan in action.
Terrific post. The lessons in Moneyball make the difficult seem more do-able.
This may be the best business metaphor book/movie since Hoosiers.
Great insights. I loved the movie and we can apply these conecpts to our business lives!
Oh, not the "I ran out of article ideas so I looked for inspiration in a movie I watched" article.
we had Billy Beane speak at our Voice of Customer conference 2 years ago. We were also setting out to make a difference using the power of analytics. Great talk. Highly recommended speaker at any business conference. I wrote a blog post about it back then.
http://www.allegiance.com/blog/lessons-from-baseball-for-voice-of-the-customer/673
Just wanted to say you combined my love for Baseball, moneyball, and Startups. So you had me at the title. :)
The element where Billy rejects an offer was the soul of entrepreneurship. Good post!
Thank you for your uplifting article,it has reaffirmed my own belief in self and renewed my fight to continue to push my startup despite no money or support.I have something and I will make it work.
Thanks Dharmesh, as always you are spot on with your posts. I totally agree with the last point #17 that its all about changing the game. If everyone thought like that imagine the possibilities!
Love the article. I was a big fan of the book, and the movie, and the comparisons here are right on. #2 is too true.
Good one Dharmesh. What about "We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't...we don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told." …. pretty much feels like when you start your first company – Some started at 18 others at 40… you talked about it, you dreamed about it, you procrastinated about it, but at some point, you started, and afterwards it is not a children’s game anymore….
Great post, Dharmesh! You've inspired me to watch Moneyball again (which I loved the first time I saw it).
I love your commitment to helping your employees grow through Hubspot's book program.
Felt nice reading it. Every single point is on the dot at least from my own experience being a start up entrepreneur. May be after a while, in a relaxed mood one can look back and adore the steps one scaled. But these 17 are very much part of my list
Re: Fence Sitting. Sometimes,an individual's personal obligations compel them to sit on the fence. I've got a great tech partner for my start-up. He's got two kids and can't walk away from his day job and go "all in." Our commitment to him, notwithstanding these limitations, is a core part of our culture and defines the way in which we want to work -- with everyone. Even in the start-up world, decency and loyalty are priceless.
I really like this line. " It's about seeing something that's not quite right in the world, and deciding you want to fix it"
For me, the problem I see is that it is really hard to find a co-founder when you want to launch a startup.
If you liked the movie, READ THE BOOK! I am currently 2/3 into the book and it is way beyond the movie - really fascinating and motivating to look at things differently.
Great movie and your post. It took me a week, after I discovered this post to read this. Actually, I didn't watched the film when it released. Now, finally I watched it and read this amaazing post of yours.
I like the idea that we are not seeing what the problem is? and I like 5
th point very very much. We actually needs doers not VP or high paid executives to build products. Game changers mostly didn't had prior experience. Prior experience didn't help you to come up with ground breaking ideas.
Thank you for suggestion! Seems a very good missed film.
Great Article! It caused a needed spark inside myself.
It's nice to read such posts like these which is a good one that movies have something to gain from and can relate it to business. Haven't seen the movie yet but I think it's good since the casts are good too. Very helpful one. Thank you for posting this!
Great post. I would missed this movie(never played baseball) if not for your post. Thanks
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Very nice post,Very helpful.Thanks for sharing..
This is really fine article..
Great article. I've watched this movie half a dozen times and get more inspired every time. The value of data-driven decsion making is sooooo under valued! LOL!
You should read the book.....it's 10 times better than the movie.
I am in China teaching and am looking to earn some extra cash with some sort of venture. I watched this film on a flight to Fiji. On the way over I watched it three times, on the way back twice. I couldn't help see the corrolations for business and life. I hope I can get invloved somehow in helping others through filling a gap that has some meaning here in China.
A couple of great quotes that mesh with your overall message:
“For forty-one million, you built a playoff team. You lost Damon, Giambi, Isringhausen, Pena and you won more games without them than you did with them. You won the exact same number of games that the Yankees won, but the Yankees spent one point four million per win and you paid two hundred and sixty thousand. I know you’ve taken it in the teeth out there, but the first guy through the wall. It always gets bloody, always. It’s the threat of not just the way of doing business, but in their minds it’s threatening the game. But really what it’s threatening is their livelihoods, it’s threatening their jobs, it’s threatening the way that they do things. And every time that happens, whether it’s the government or a way of doing business or whatever it is, the people are holding the reins, have their hands on the switch. They go bat shit crazy. I mean, anybody who’s not building a team right and rebuilding it using your model, they’re dinosaurs. They’ll be sitting on their ass on the sofa in October, watching the Boston Red Sox win the World Series.” - Arliss Howard as John Henry, Moneyball
“The problem we’re trying to solve is that there are rich teams and there are poor teams, then there’s fifty feet of crap, and then there’s us. It’s an unfair game. And now we’re being gutted, organ donors for the rich. Boston has taken our kidneys, Yankees takin’ our heart and you guys are sittin’ around talkin’ the same old good body nonsense, like we’re selling deeds. Like we’re looking for Fabio. We got to think differently.”
Great article !!
I have also written a blog posts regarding things as a startup owner could learn from after watching the movie last night, and i guess it could be divided into 4 main categories:
1.Talent
2.Belief
3.Intuitive & Analytic
4.Keep Evolving
See if you want to have some "
extra reading" and feel free to leave me some comments !
4 Things Startups can Learn from Moneyball @ idea-stack
This is an excellent point. It is more important to find individuals that can do the job (or have the drive to learn how to do the job) then provide incentive to keep them around. Thanks for the tips!
As these fuel prices keep rising we can help Listen to the calls on
Wednesday 7:50pm cst get paid $50.00 a call for 6 call have enough to buy into the company get
30 bottles of CV100 catalyst.
I also liked the part where after they won 20 consecutive games, Beane was still focused on the end result. It seems when a startup gets early results, such as seeing large growth, these are as the eric ries lean startup term of "vanity metrics". I like how he was completely focused on the long-term goal of changing the rules of the game
What a completely inspiring post. I've not yet seen the film, but it's definitely now on the list.
How good is it when the comments actually add value to the blog (oops, unlike mine)?
Thanks Dharmesh.
Both the article and the comments were all worth reading.
My next big thing is creating an advanced form of software to drive robust text-Analytics--to capture the 90% of insight, knowledge, and wisdom that is contained in free-narrative-text sources, such as articles, movies, emails, and EMR notes of scientists, physicians, and nurses. This tool will make people and machines far smarter and productive--brilliant, really.
Cool article. I love the passion in it.
My favorite quote's from Moneyball:
Playing first base isn't that hard. Tell him.
Answer. "It's extremely hard."
I always laugh at that one.
I don't want anyone to get the idea not to recruit old guys though.
I just returned working in Brazil, an emerging economy where most Customers still don't have a credit card, so very little Internet sales.
I was teaching the young American guys how we did business 20 years ago, with call centers, third party local stores and payment plans...a new (old) way of thinking for another market.
The best clip of the movie...
"Jeremy is going to do what he never does, he's gonna go for it. He's going to round 1st and go for it."
Jeremy falls and scrambles for 1st plate. "This is all of Jeremy's nightmares coming to life." The crowd is laughing. "And Jeremy is about to find out why. The ball went 60 ft. over the fence. He hit a home run and didn't even realize it."
"How can you not be romantic about baseball?"
great article but missed the best quote of the movie.. Ugly girlfriend means no confidence.... lol!!!
FYI - the statistical techniques used for personnel selection in the movie Moneyball date back over 100 years - in 1896 life insurance companies were using statistically optimized forecasts of future insurance sales using coded application blanks as inputs to select life insurance salesmen. See a 1994 book titled "Biodata Handbook" edited by Mumford & Stokes (in which I contributed a chapter on item development) for more information on how "Moneyball" concepts are applied to arenas other than baseball. The leading seller of online personnel selection systems using this technology is SHL Inc.
www.SHL.com). This technology lends itself to online personnel selection systems because you don't need proctored test environments. The good news is that it has virtually no adverse impact against minorities either!
THIS CLOWN BEANE BRAIN IS SO OVERATED ITS A SHAME EVER CHECK RAYS PAYROLL AND RECORD IDIOT MAN?
Quite HARD HITTING Thanks a lot gr8 article
Great article!
Will watch the movie one more time )